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	<title>Comments on: Assignment 5: Orania</title>
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	<link>http://verbal.co.za/2009/04/assignment-5-orania/</link>
	<description>Musing on life captured in a square</description>
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		<title>By: The Trutherizer</title>
		<link>http://verbal.co.za/2009/04/assignment-5-orania/comment-page-1/#comment-15162</link>
		<dc:creator>The Trutherizer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Sep 2010 22:55:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://text.hmmm.co.za/?p=60#comment-15162</guid>
		<description>If these people love the life they are living and they are not hurting anybody else then it would be a crime against the freedom loving people they are and humanity in general to take it away from them. And it warms my heart to see them doing things right, because none of us can argue that we did thing right in the past, but they truly are. I would like to see them welcome good natured Afrikaans speaking black people into their community as well though. Even if just on a trail basis. We have so much to give the other people of this land and I don&#039;t mean charity. Afrikaner culture is a wonderful thing. It should be shared.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If these people love the life they are living and they are not hurting anybody else then it would be a crime against the freedom loving people they are and humanity in general to take it away from them. And it warms my heart to see them doing things right, because none of us can argue that we did thing right in the past, but they truly are. I would like to see them welcome good natured Afrikaans speaking black people into their community as well though. Even if just on a trail basis. We have so much to give the other people of this land and I don&#8217;t mean charity. Afrikaner culture is a wonderful thing. It should be shared.</p>
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		<title>By: Cleo</title>
		<link>http://verbal.co.za/2009/04/assignment-5-orania/comment-page-1/#comment-14227</link>
		<dc:creator>Cleo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jun 2010 14:42:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://text.hmmm.co.za/?p=60#comment-14227</guid>
		<description>Description of me: 24 year old African American woman who searched discussions of Orania after reading an online article on Orania given by Yahoo sports during the World Cup.

After I graduated from high school in 2004, I was fortunate enough to visit South Africa for 2 weeks.  Being so young and not knowing much about current world events and history, I was surprised to learn of apartheid and its relative upheaval.  In order to comprehend the magnitude of apartheid, I had to compare it to my history of slavery (de jure discrimination) and Jim Crow laws (de facto discrimination).  

At the time, I was shocked that the world allowed this regime for so long (later, I learned a bit about  politics surrounding it, at least where the US was involved, so I get it, but I feel it was wrong).  During those 2 weeks, the message I recieved from the black South Africans were that they were better off, yet that there was still a ways to go for equality.  

I learned about the &quot;Rainbow Nation&quot; et cetera. I remember thinking that I hope that they look at history particularly US history and learn how to do this thing right. Looking at this again years later, I believe that  it wasn&#039;t done right.  Firstly, affirmative action in practice does not work.  In theory, it would give candidates who are qualified, but without experience, opportunities (somewhat akin to awarding a position to a recent college/university graduate over someone who was working in the industry for a few years).  

In practice, its about quotas, nepotism, and usually ends in revengeful attitudes.  Personally, I believe that education is the best way to achieve equality rather than affirmative action.  It takes much more time and resources to structure a good education system and even more to wait to see any benefits when the youth graduate and begin working.  Affirmative action is  at best a Band-Aid covering a hemorrage.  I believe that education could close the wound.
And as for Orania, I can see why people would want to isolate themselves from the problem. Truly, I can&#039;t condemn them for wanting safety and self preservation.   Historically, isolation and avoiding the problem rarely works over time.  Also, I don&#039;t think a government will allow anyone to secede from the country, at least without a civil war. I can see some arguing that this is secession or perhaps the first step to secession.  

On the other hand, Orania seems very similar to the Jim Crow laws that ruled the US after the emancipation of the slaves and before the civil rights era of the 60s.  These weren&#039;t actual laws, but more of unwritten rules.  It was just the way things were.  There are no written rules in Orania.  It just the way things are, no blacks.  In the Yahoo article, someone stated that in order to live in Orania, one must be approved by an administration board.  Also that no blacks would want to live there.  Although that may be true, would a black person ever be approved to live in Orania?  If one could match a white to a black and they nearly identical in many demographical area including age, income, etc. 
If the only difference were that one was black and the other was white, and if the white person was approved to live in Orania, would the black person?  
All in all, it saddens me to hear that the majority is essentially seeking revenge for all the years that they have been discriminated against.  It is human nature, but it still is sad.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Description of me: 24 year old African American woman who searched discussions of Orania after reading an online article on Orania given by Yahoo sports during the World Cup.</p>
<p>After I graduated from high school in 2004, I was fortunate enough to visit South Africa for 2 weeks.  Being so young and not knowing much about current world events and history, I was surprised to learn of apartheid and its relative upheaval.  In order to comprehend the magnitude of apartheid, I had to compare it to my history of slavery (de jure discrimination) and Jim Crow laws (de facto discrimination).  </p>
<p>At the time, I was shocked that the world allowed this regime for so long (later, I learned a bit about  politics surrounding it, at least where the US was involved, so I get it, but I feel it was wrong).  During those 2 weeks, the message I recieved from the black South Africans were that they were better off, yet that there was still a ways to go for equality.  </p>
<p>I learned about the &#8220;Rainbow Nation&#8221; et cetera. I remember thinking that I hope that they look at history particularly US history and learn how to do this thing right. Looking at this again years later, I believe that  it wasn&#8217;t done right.  Firstly, affirmative action in practice does not work.  In theory, it would give candidates who are qualified, but without experience, opportunities (somewhat akin to awarding a position to a recent college/university graduate over someone who was working in the industry for a few years).  </p>
<p>In practice, its about quotas, nepotism, and usually ends in revengeful attitudes.  Personally, I believe that education is the best way to achieve equality rather than affirmative action.  It takes much more time and resources to structure a good education system and even more to wait to see any benefits when the youth graduate and begin working.  Affirmative action is  at best a Band-Aid covering a hemorrage.  I believe that education could close the wound.<br />
And as for Orania, I can see why people would want to isolate themselves from the problem. Truly, I can&#8217;t condemn them for wanting safety and self preservation.   Historically, isolation and avoiding the problem rarely works over time.  Also, I don&#8217;t think a government will allow anyone to secede from the country, at least without a civil war. I can see some arguing that this is secession or perhaps the first step to secession.  </p>
<p>On the other hand, Orania seems very similar to the Jim Crow laws that ruled the US after the emancipation of the slaves and before the civil rights era of the 60s.  These weren&#8217;t actual laws, but more of unwritten rules.  It was just the way things were.  There are no written rules in Orania.  It just the way things are, no blacks.  In the Yahoo article, someone stated that in order to live in Orania, one must be approved by an administration board.  Also that no blacks would want to live there.  Although that may be true, would a black person ever be approved to live in Orania?  If one could match a white to a black and they nearly identical in many demographical area including age, income, etc.<br />
If the only difference were that one was black and the other was white, and if the white person was approved to live in Orania, would the black person?<br />
All in all, it saddens me to hear that the majority is essentially seeking revenge for all the years that they have been discriminated against.  It is human nature, but it still is sad.</p>
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		<title>By: Nix</title>
		<link>http://verbal.co.za/2009/04/assignment-5-orania/comment-page-1/#comment-13685</link>
		<dc:creator>Nix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Apr 2010 10:10:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://text.hmmm.co.za/?p=60#comment-13685</guid>
		<description>When I stop being prosecuted for being white we can start looking beyond colour.

There are a lot of people who, when the apartheid era fell, were all willing and open to a country of equality - but over the years that willingness was dashed and abused until it no longer took any form. &quot;Kill the boer&quot;, no? I&#039;ve done quite a lot of research on the issue of racism in SA - to be honest I know a lot of really AWESOME black people, but there is this shadow hanging over everything in this country.

People always need someone to blame when things in their lives go wrong...

I&#039;ve heard people use the excuse used above &quot;I was born into a poor household&quot; and so I must be handed everything on a platter... riiiiight. I was born into a poor household too, but that doesn&#039;t mean I expect everything to be handed to me on a silver platter. I guess that&#039;s part of what makes us different, whereas I take responsibility for my actions, and WORK to succeed in this life most people find it easier to just b*tch and moan about everything that goes wrong and not actually contribute to making things right.

The majority of discussions I&#039;ve read through always ended in a black person saying the whites MUST leave their country and that Africa belongs to the blacks. I&#039;ve even read through a couple of discussions where black people encourage others to kill and torture white people. In all this (and I would like someone to prove me wrong) I have not once found a discussion where white people encourage others to kill and torture black people.

Please prove me wrong on that...

As for the original story, I think the idea behind Orania is a good one. Though it means isolation, the state of things in this country means there is no other way for white people to live. It would be better to live in Orania than to live in a state of constant fear in your own home.

With all the proclamations of &quot;kill the boer&quot; and all the rest of it, all the promises to make white people suffer... I think the idea of a white only town is valid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I stop being prosecuted for being white we can start looking beyond colour.</p>
<p>There are a lot of people who, when the apartheid era fell, were all willing and open to a country of equality &#8211; but over the years that willingness was dashed and abused until it no longer took any form. &#8220;Kill the boer&#8221;, no? I&#8217;ve done quite a lot of research on the issue of racism in SA &#8211; to be honest I know a lot of really AWESOME black people, but there is this shadow hanging over everything in this country.</p>
<p>People always need someone to blame when things in their lives go wrong&#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve heard people use the excuse used above &#8220;I was born into a poor household&#8221; and so I must be handed everything on a platter&#8230; riiiiight. I was born into a poor household too, but that doesn&#8217;t mean I expect everything to be handed to me on a silver platter. I guess that&#8217;s part of what makes us different, whereas I take responsibility for my actions, and WORK to succeed in this life most people find it easier to just b*tch and moan about everything that goes wrong and not actually contribute to making things right.</p>
<p>The majority of discussions I&#8217;ve read through always ended in a black person saying the whites MUST leave their country and that Africa belongs to the blacks. I&#8217;ve even read through a couple of discussions where black people encourage others to kill and torture white people. In all this (and I would like someone to prove me wrong) I have not once found a discussion where white people encourage others to kill and torture black people.</p>
<p>Please prove me wrong on that&#8230;</p>
<p>As for the original story, I think the idea behind Orania is a good one. Though it means isolation, the state of things in this country means there is no other way for white people to live. It would be better to live in Orania than to live in a state of constant fear in your own home.</p>
<p>With all the proclamations of &#8220;kill the boer&#8221; and all the rest of it, all the promises to make white people suffer&#8230; I think the idea of a white only town is valid.</p>
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		<title>By: rob</title>
		<link>http://verbal.co.za/2009/04/assignment-5-orania/comment-page-1/#comment-12848</link>
		<dc:creator>rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 08:39:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://text.hmmm.co.za/?p=60#comment-12848</guid>
		<description>&#039;for heaven’s sake can we start seeing beyond colour already&#039; practise what you preach babe

&#039;things like BEE come in handy&#039; lol</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;for heaven’s sake can we start seeing beyond colour already&#8217; practise what you preach babe</p>
<p>&#8216;things like BEE come in handy&#8217; lol</p>
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		<title>By: Tshepo</title>
		<link>http://verbal.co.za/2009/04/assignment-5-orania/comment-page-1/#comment-12595</link>
		<dc:creator>Tshepo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 13:10:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://text.hmmm.co.za/?p=60#comment-12595</guid>
		<description>there is no doubt all of you are white and don&#039;t get me wrong some of my friends are white hence i acquired myself the name coconut. Funny how when a black person complains about whites they are blamed of playing a race card but the same does not go for white counterparts. And as for SA being owned by whites again thats just aiming too high, we blacks are here to rule and we aint backing down. The last time i checked Orania was in South Africa and therefore belonged to the SA government and again we are busy preaching reconciliation yet some people isolate themselves. What exactly are we teaching those who come after us, that white and black will never mix, don&#039;t you guys think we are going backwards instead? yes apartheid is part of us and will always be but i would like to narate it to my children as a thing of the past and not have to point at Orania as an exqample guys. As for black empowerment its only fair, i hate playing the victim but our parents were robbed of a better future and that affected us. I was born in a poor household thanks to apartheid and yes that did have an impact on my future and to break this cycle only things like BEE come in handy, m sure some of you still benefit from apartheid. I am not saying the Orania setup is completely wrong m just saying it shows just how some people are resistant to change and that will have a huge impact on their children&#039;s future. for heaven&#039;s sake can we start seeing beyond colour already</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>there is no doubt all of you are white and don&#8217;t get me wrong some of my friends are white hence i acquired myself the name coconut. Funny how when a black person complains about whites they are blamed of playing a race card but the same does not go for white counterparts. And as for SA being owned by whites again thats just aiming too high, we blacks are here to rule and we aint backing down. The last time i checked Orania was in South Africa and therefore belonged to the SA government and again we are busy preaching reconciliation yet some people isolate themselves. What exactly are we teaching those who come after us, that white and black will never mix, don&#8217;t you guys think we are going backwards instead? yes apartheid is part of us and will always be but i would like to narate it to my children as a thing of the past and not have to point at Orania as an exqample guys. As for black empowerment its only fair, i hate playing the victim but our parents were robbed of a better future and that affected us. I was born in a poor household thanks to apartheid and yes that did have an impact on my future and to break this cycle only things like BEE come in handy, m sure some of you still benefit from apartheid. I am not saying the Orania setup is completely wrong m just saying it shows just how some people are resistant to change and that will have a huge impact on their children&#8217;s future. for heaven&#8217;s sake can we start seeing beyond colour already</p>
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		<title>By: Derek</title>
		<link>http://verbal.co.za/2009/04/assignment-5-orania/comment-page-1/#comment-11874</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:57:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://text.hmmm.co.za/?p=60#comment-11874</guid>
		<description>Daniel. An insightful, well written  objective article . Thank you.

As the son of an Afrikaans mother and English father who was brought up in the English culture, I can only admire a people who are prepared to stand up for their culture  and language as those in Orania do. And to think that I am part of that culure.There is nothing wrong with it.

Why is it  that the present government (or am I allowed to say the present regime) will support a Palestinian state separate from or incorporating parts of Israel, but when it comes to our people people taking the high road and yelling treason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daniel. An insightful, well written  objective article . Thank you.</p>
<p>As the son of an Afrikaans mother and English father who was brought up in the English culture, I can only admire a people who are prepared to stand up for their culture  and language as those in Orania do. And to think that I am part of that culure.There is nothing wrong with it.</p>
<p>Why is it  that the present government (or am I allowed to say the present regime) will support a Palestinian state separate from or incorporating parts of Israel, but when it comes to our people people taking the high road and yelling treason.</p>
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		<title>By: Orania &#124; Posi+tive Magazine &#124; Verbal.</title>
		<link>http://verbal.co.za/2009/04/assignment-5-orania/comment-page-1/#comment-11818</link>
		<dc:creator>Orania &#124; Posi+tive Magazine &#124; Verbal.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 18:21:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://text.hmmm.co.za/?p=60#comment-11818</guid>
		<description>[...] Cosua just informed me that my Orania editorial has just been featured in Issue 5 of Posi+Tive Magazine [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Cosua just informed me that my Orania editorial has just been featured in Issue 5 of Posi+Tive Magazine [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Quintin</title>
		<link>http://verbal.co.za/2009/04/assignment-5-orania/comment-page-1/#comment-11294</link>
		<dc:creator>Quintin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 17:35:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://text.hmmm.co.za/?p=60#comment-11294</guid>
		<description>DANIEL, thank you for your objective report on Orania.

As a young Afrikaner, who had nothing to do with apartheid, I really tried to integrate into the New South Africa. I even learned &quot;Nkosi Sikelel&#039; iAfrika&quot; off by heart! At the same time I maintained my pride as an Afrikaner and tried to live my life as best I could as a member of an ethnic minority ruled by a black majority in South Africa.

After a while I realised that the only way I could fully integrate into the new South African society was if I turned my back on my Afrikaner heritage, culture, language and traditions as there REALLY is no place for these in the new South African society - especially not in business. 

As an entrepreneur I found the government&#039;s enforced racial quotas and obession with black empowerment simply unacceptable. There were many other issues also troubling me at that time - such as openly advocated racism against Afrikaners, corruption on all levels (including the police), seriously high levels of violent crime on Afrikaners (especially those living on farms), a system undermining merit etc. but I&#039;m not going to go into all that now as I would like to keep this as short as possible.

Instead of emigrating, as many Afrikaners do, I decided to visited Orania first as I really didn&#039;t want to leave my fatherland. What a revelation it turned out to be! I immediately felt at home and was really impressed with the positive attitude of Oraniërs. I visited Orania a few times during the past year and have now bought land and started my own Orania-based travel company. I want to allow other Afrikaners the opportunity to have the same experience I had when I first discovered Orania. It gives my people sincere hope for the future of the Afrikaners, which is more than I can say about any other inisiative launched by the liberals in this country.

Orania will grow from strength to strength and the Afrikaner will have their own independent state again in the near future. We&#039;ve learned from our forefathers&#039; mistakes and are now moving on by doing everything ourself. 

We&#039;ll do our part for Africa as we are an indigenous volk (people) of Africa. We share in this continent&#039;s pain and pleasure... but we aren&#039;t willing to continue to suffer under a hostile regime that isn&#039;t showing any sign of protecting our best interests.

After all, we have the right to rule ourselves - same as the French, Germans, Japanese, Swazi&#039;s etc. especially seeing that it is in our best interests to do so. By denying us this right, as most liberals seem to do, our human rights are grotesquely undermined and we simply won&#039;t stand for it. 

We want peace, which is why we want freedom in our own independent state. Orania is the first step towards obtaining our objective.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DANIEL, thank you for your objective report on Orania.</p>
<p>As a young Afrikaner, who had nothing to do with apartheid, I really tried to integrate into the New South Africa. I even learned &#8220;Nkosi Sikelel&#8217; iAfrika&#8221; off by heart! At the same time I maintained my pride as an Afrikaner and tried to live my life as best I could as a member of an ethnic minority ruled by a black majority in South Africa.</p>
<p>After a while I realised that the only way I could fully integrate into the new South African society was if I turned my back on my Afrikaner heritage, culture, language and traditions as there REALLY is no place for these in the new South African society &#8211; especially not in business. </p>
<p>As an entrepreneur I found the government&#8217;s enforced racial quotas and obession with black empowerment simply unacceptable. There were many other issues also troubling me at that time &#8211; such as openly advocated racism against Afrikaners, corruption on all levels (including the police), seriously high levels of violent crime on Afrikaners (especially those living on farms), a system undermining merit etc. but I&#8217;m not going to go into all that now as I would like to keep this as short as possible.</p>
<p>Instead of emigrating, as many Afrikaners do, I decided to visited Orania first as I really didn&#8217;t want to leave my fatherland. What a revelation it turned out to be! I immediately felt at home and was really impressed with the positive attitude of Oraniërs. I visited Orania a few times during the past year and have now bought land and started my own Orania-based travel company. I want to allow other Afrikaners the opportunity to have the same experience I had when I first discovered Orania. It gives my people sincere hope for the future of the Afrikaners, which is more than I can say about any other inisiative launched by the liberals in this country.</p>
<p>Orania will grow from strength to strength and the Afrikaner will have their own independent state again in the near future. We&#8217;ve learned from our forefathers&#8217; mistakes and are now moving on by doing everything ourself. </p>
<p>We&#8217;ll do our part for Africa as we are an indigenous volk (people) of Africa. We share in this continent&#8217;s pain and pleasure&#8230; but we aren&#8217;t willing to continue to suffer under a hostile regime that isn&#8217;t showing any sign of protecting our best interests.</p>
<p>After all, we have the right to rule ourselves &#8211; same as the French, Germans, Japanese, Swazi&#8217;s etc. especially seeing that it is in our best interests to do so. By denying us this right, as most liberals seem to do, our human rights are grotesquely undermined and we simply won&#8217;t stand for it. </p>
<p>We want peace, which is why we want freedom in our own independent state. Orania is the first step towards obtaining our objective.</p>
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		<title>By: Gawie</title>
		<link>http://verbal.co.za/2009/04/assignment-5-orania/comment-page-1/#comment-11204</link>
		<dc:creator>Gawie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 11:31:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://text.hmmm.co.za/?p=60#comment-11204</guid>
		<description>Pieter en Annemarie ek stem en as ek een cent kon kry vir al die str**t wat hierdie ander praat kon &#039;n mens n damn lekker lewe geniet</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pieter en Annemarie ek stem en as ek een cent kon kry vir al die str**t wat hierdie ander praat kon &#8216;n mens n damn lekker lewe geniet</p>
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		<title>By: Annamarie Wentzel</title>
		<link>http://verbal.co.za/2009/04/assignment-5-orania/comment-page-1/#comment-11155</link>
		<dc:creator>Annamarie Wentzel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 20:11:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://text.hmmm.co.za/?p=60#comment-11155</guid>
		<description>I agree 100% with Pieter van Wyk, the longer I have to mingle with this people who pretend to be gifts from up above, the more likely is my chance to go straight to hell!
How can you be so smart, but so badly mannered? You sit in all the top positions, but you cant even spell! Luckily we as a family grew up working the hard way, we dont wait for someone to lay the table or do the dishes. Orania will be like going home, it will be the one thing Ive always needed:
&quot;rus en vrede vir my siel&quot;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree 100% with Pieter van Wyk, the longer I have to mingle with this people who pretend to be gifts from up above, the more likely is my chance to go straight to hell!<br />
How can you be so smart, but so badly mannered? You sit in all the top positions, but you cant even spell! Luckily we as a family grew up working the hard way, we dont wait for someone to lay the table or do the dishes. Orania will be like going home, it will be the one thing Ive always needed:<br />
&#8220;rus en vrede vir my siel&#8221;&#8230;</p>
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